Your Voice: Citizens have their say
by Greg Welch, Tracy
Oct 25, 2012 | 2688 views | 13 13 comments | 4 4 recommendations | email to a friend | print
EDITOR,

Thank you to all the 2,151 who signed the petition to save Tracy Ballpark.

Special thanks go to the neighborhood near the ballpark for all the hard work in getting signatures, creating a Facebook page and getting the word out. I understand there were others outside the neighborhood that supported our cause and got signatures, and I thank you, also.

Since this is an election year, when voting for our City Council members, please take into consideration those who supported saving the ball park from the beginning and not just getting on the bandwagon after the fact.

If you’re not sure who supported us from the beginning, you should be able to tell by watching the videos from the City Council meetings of Sept. 18 (Item No. 9) and Oct. 16, (Item No. 5) on the city of Tracy website at www.ci.tracy.ca.us/?navid=282. Also, check out the Save Tracy Ballpark Facebook page for input from others.

Again, thank you for helping save Tracy Ballpark.

Comments
(13)
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Realintracy
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October 28, 2012
You comments are inconsistent. You did by inference, castigate Mr. Nicolau and his intentions, and he did call you out. By what you have written you did not "talk" nor did "chat."

Never once have I said that yer a liar. I have accused ya of not knowin all th facts an details regardin what ya have said about others but never once have I said yer a liar.

Brandin someone as a liar or accusin em of wrongdoin is serious business in my book. An when it's done by constructin scenarios or simply takin what was said out of context its worse.

Now it's my turn to call you a liar because you lie through omission of facts while presenting other facts, which is still a lie. I am tired of your accusations and lies as are the rest of the bloggers here. You accuse me of being a bully well you should really take a close look at your own comments about me, Macel, dcose and others you don't like

What a difference a day makes! Have I ever called you a liar? No. I have called you a bully, and a defacto spokesman for the city, and now, by your own admission, the self appointed spokesman for the "rest of the bloggers."

Have I ever called Cose a liar? No. I did comment that he needed to apologize to momofthree for calling her a "low life." He declined, citing her ignorance of others property rights and stated "the call stands." I don't think his comment was appropriate, but that was his call.

Have I ever called anyone other than Maciel a liar? No.

I previously indicated that I should have been more polite in my previous post exchanges with you and apologized, repeatedly. After reading your latest post, I am inclined to wonder why I apologized. Given your latest emotional, factually flawed, ill informed, personally insulting rant, I considered retracting it. But then I would lower myself to standards that obviously are comfortable with, and I am not inclined to do that. My previous apologies stand.

I will not however, be called a liar, or be called lazy. You may retire from the field and refuse to comment further as indicated by your last statement, " Well no more, this is my last response to you because the best way to win this stupid game of yours is not to play. Is that clear enough writing and English for you (sic). Clearly, when one is intellectually out matched and devoid of any hope to prevail, retreat is a viable option. Glad you chose it. Looking forward to not hearing from you again.

I will not resort to calling you names, like a self absorbed, ego maniacal blow hard or a keyboard bully. While it might factual, (albeit a rather brief and incomplete assessment of your contemptuous being) it need not be said. For those who understand no explanation is necessary, for those who do not, none is possible.

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 28, 2012
"I will not resort to calling you names, like a self absorbed, ego maniacal blow hard or a keyboard bully."

Yeah, right!
Realintracy
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October 28, 2012
Ornely:

Your latest diatribe speaks volumes as to your limited ability to cope with reality. I have never called you, Cose, or anyone other than Maciel, a liar. Let us look back to some of your recent posts and see if we can jog your memory.

"Now, can ya speak as ta why ya trust a Lawyer that has thrown in ta this topic that is paid frum some here to for unknown source ta bring this topic ta light just before a Council election which has historically happened every time thair is a Council Election?

Thank you for responding and who knows, perhaps we will chat one day. But don't worry, you still won't know your speaking with Ornery.

I declined to talk with him on th phone or meet him in person for personal security reasons and he accepted it. He and I had a public discussion and both exchanged information and we did it in public.

Don't believe me or the press who printed the comments? Then why don't you get off your lazy lying butt and call him yourself to see if we had a chat. I am quite sure he will be pleased to take your call.

Talk Defined: to communicate or exchange ideas, information, etc., by speaking.

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 27, 2012
rayderfan

Alas yer right.

Guess ya can tell I'm human too an to have my limits.

I usually don't respond that way when I am called a liar but when someone engineers a lie with partial truths, even if that lie ain't directed at me, after several times hearin it I do sorta loose my cool.

You an I don't agree on everythang but at least ya can be reasoned with an as far as I can tell ya don't engineer lies out of partial truths.

An, ta yer credit, ya take as well as ya dish it out.

All that bein said still thair's no excuse fer goin of th deep end an fer that I am sorry. Thanks fer th reality check. Believe me, it's appreciated.

I agree with dcose when he wrote, ". . . needlessly insult a group with many peers whom I have respect for."

Why would I respect em?

Fer one I have known most of them at a workin level fer many years an know thair character. I am also aware that even though they are humans that make mistakes, thair hearts are in th right place an thair efforts ta make Tracy a better place fer everyone is truly genuine.

If I didn't feel that way they are acutely aware I would blast em as I have in th past but fortunately not often an not with th current ones
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 27, 2012
When ya consider what they all have done over th years fer th pittance they receive an th flack they have ta put up with frum people that don't understand or want ta understand an criticize virtually everythang they attempt ta do or get accomplished, ya really have ta admire em.

Well perhaps not everyone but I admire em if fer no other reason than they are out thair an have th loyalty ta Tracy ta even try ta make thangs better fer th rest of us.

Will they always be successful in everythang they attempt ta do? Nope! But they got a better chance if people are genuine in thair efforts ta work with em so they can be more successful an ya certainly don't do that by continually callin em liars.

Frankly, it's a lot more than I can say fer most people because most people would simply throw in th towel an quit rather than ta put up with it.

Thair is a consistent criticism I have heard over th years that they, City Council members, City Staff an other City employees like th PD an FD, are somehow on th take an make money because of thair efforts an never has thair been one shred of evidence that might stand as proof of th notion. Yet it still persists.

Have thair been some in th past that did misuse thair position? Most certainly but fortunately thair in th small minority an th rest have been out thair doin what they can do, sometimes incorrectly, with th best of motives an intent.

Also, havin been through this ordeal every four years fer over thirty years, it all becomes worse right before an election.

Brandin someone as a liar or accusin em of wrongdoin is serious business in my book. An when it's done by constructin scenarios or simply takin what was said out of context its worse.

Castigatin someone fer sayin somethang, based on th information at hand an then changin th mind later because new information became available, is inexcusable an childish not ta mention damagin on a score of fronts as innocent people become involved in it an all because bits of truthful information was used ta fabricate a lie about somethang that many, who don't wanna believe anythang different, will accept as th truth an then act on it.

Mike fer example, an no I haven't talked ta him directly about it, said somethang ta th effect he was in favor of sellin th ball field an usin th proceeds fer th sports park.

That's true an I agreed with that statement mainly because it makes a lot of common sense ta better serve th entire block of citizens in Tracy.

He (Mike) then changed his mind when he apparently larned more information an while I don't agree with him, mainly because a couple of other questions haven't been answered ta my satisfaction, I am not accusin him ta be a liar but rather someone that simply changed his mind after he had more information, information I wasn't privy ta, that prompted him ta change his mind.

Seems rational ta me but fer some people it seems that what people say is etched in stone an thair not allowed ta change thair mind an say somethang else because they had more information.

I don't see all th information that is given ta City Council, an honestly very few people ever do. So logic dictates that very easily somethang came up that Mike saw that caused him ta shift his position.

Now I can come up with all sorts of possible scenarios as ta why he changed his stance but unless I ask him an he tells me or I can somehow read his thoughts, I don't really know. That don't make him a liar, it simply means that fer some reason many don't know about, he simply changed his mind.

Not ta slam women, because I honestly respect em, thair is an ole tired joke goin around that I have heard since I was little that deals with a women's perogative ta change thair minds. Does this make all women who change thair minds liars? I hope not because usually when a person changes thair mind thair's a good reason behind it. If we don't know that reason we need ta ask em but ya don't wanna start off simply callin em liars. That surely won't get ya far but could have some very nasty results.

Somehow, someday, th witch hunt that invariable goes on in our political system needs ta stop.

Negativity breeds more negativity, more mistrust an is quickly killin our nation as everyone believes th other guy is doin somethang wrong an many times what they are doin themselves is just as bad or worse than what thair accusin others of doin.

Perhaps this might make more sense. All whites are not racist. All blacks are not lazy. All Hispanics are not illegal or criminals. All Muslims are not bad people. All Christians are not terrorists. All Democrats are not stupid and neither are all Republicans. All Teaparty members are bad people an neither are all of the Occupy Wall Street people. All lawyers are on the take. All scientists believe the same way. All cops are bad, on the take or even dough-nut eaters. Why do we, or many, say these things when clearly they are not?

Does this make sense? Probably not an ya can chalk it up ta another senseless ramble frum Ornley if ya wanna. Hopefully though yer followin my thankin here even though it's difficult fer me ta get it down here.

Thair is one thang I know.

If we, a collective we that includes all of our citizenry across th nation, don't start workin tagether as a united people, an puttin aside some of our stupid an petty differences that keep us frum workin tagether, were gonna continue ta loose what freedoms we have left an th US will shortly no longer be a great an free nation.

In this Pogo, an ole comic strip character probably said it best, "I has seed da enemy an day is us."

So here's a challange ta anyone. If ya can produce th evidence of intentional lies or dealins under th table fer personal gain, which seems ta be th root of th problem here, present it here fer all ta see an if it's true all of us can see ta it that th offendin person is removed frum office an, if possible an necessary, prosecuted an held accountable fer thair actions.

Someone once encouraged me ta run fer City Council. I declined. I wouldn't take th job on a dime. Half of th people thank yer doin a fine job an th other half thank yer on th take an steelin em blind.

It's pretty easy ta see th fine job, especially when thangs are goin smoothly. But it's virtually impossible ta defend against a lie that has no basis in th truth of th matter other than ta say "No, it didn't happen that way or that while it may appear that way thair are other extenuatin circumstances that resulted in th decision bein made th way that it was."

Fer certain it's really a thankless job an I do admire em fer attemptin ta make a positive difference an will leave it with that.

Well it's time ta stop cus this post is already too long an words escape me ta clearly get my point across so it's best I stop now. Hope ya can sift through all of this an understand what I'm tryin ta say but I can understand if ya don't.

Hey, ya can't fault me fer tryin can ya? Well I suppose someone will but that's life ain't it? Won't keep me from tryin though.
Realintracy
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October 26, 2012
You declined to "talk" to Nicolau. People plural, Maciel singular.....liar

Get it!!!!
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 27, 2012
No, as usual, you have omitted factual information in order to support your lies.

I declined to talk with him on th phone or meet him in person for personal security reasons and he accepted it.

Now it's my turn to call you a liar because you lie through omission of facts while presenting other facts, which is still a lie.

He and I had a public discussion and both exchanged information and we did it in public.

Don't believe me or the press who printed the comments? Then why don't you get off your lazy lying butt and call him yourself to see if we had a chat. I am quite sure he will be pleased to take your call.

But you won't do that will you? Or if you do you won't tell him your association with the name you use here in these sections because it would reveal your real identity.

I am tired of your accusations and lies as are the rest of the bloggers here. You accuse me of being a bully well you should really take a close look at your own comments about me, Macel, dcose and others you don't like.

Well no more, this is my last response to you because the best way to win this stupid game of yours is not to play. Is that clear enough writing and English for you
rayderfan
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October 27, 2012
There there Ornley. Don't let Realintracy get you so upset that you lose your have to revert to proper English to make your point.

You are taking these blogs much to personal.
dcose
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October 27, 2012
Look at rayderfan... actin all growed up. Together, you and UnRealinTracy have the collective wisdom of a teenager.

Timeout... Do over...

That would needlessly insult a group with many peers whom I have respect for... You two... That you're trying, is noted... maybe the day will come (before the heavens finally grow dark) that enlightenment comes but today is...

clearly, not that day.
Realintracy
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October 26, 2012
Ok, your corrected. Could I get extra pickles?

Citizens banded together over an issue, petioned their government, assembled, expressed themselves to their elected city council and prevailed on the issue.

The Tracy Press reported the issue and followed up on it. A citizen actually looked into the city archives and found compelling evidence that the park was gifted to the city Ritter (good job Nicolau).

Ornley wrote Nicolau had less than honorable motives, only to be called out and silenced. Maciel, who supported the sale of the park, apparently looked at a calender and realized an election was around the corner , and a while taking a community park and a historic ball field might be profitable, might not be popular. So he reversed himself and then started the classic three stooges monologue.

Looks like good government on the citizens side, hope to see more of it. Looks like all to familiar bs on the city government side.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 26, 2012
Stretchin th facts a bit aren't ya?

Didn't say Nicolau had less than honorable motives but said since he was an attorney he might have. We talked an got it straightened out with no animosity between us an did it all in public so I don't thank I was called out an silenced even though ya might felt it that way.

Never once did I imply otherwise, after Ritter made his statement that th park was gifted ta th city. What th question was an still is, because it hasn't been anwered yet, is what were th stipulations how th park would be used forever? Care ta respond ta that? Probably not.

Did Maciel tell ya why he changed his stance? Did ya ask him? Interested parties would probably like ta know. Or is this just another one of yer imaginations?

Ya still haven't proved anything here but just keep restating what ya have already said.

Care ta address th questions that have been answered that ya so faithfully desire ta avoid?

Ya still don't get it. You are th government an ya deserve th government that YOU elect.

As far as th Press followin up on it, thay are just parrotin what they have already found out. Th questions above are still unanswered an ya continue ta ignore em.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 26, 2012
An as far as I see thair's only one person callin people liars an that seems ta be you. Most of what yer sayin are unsubstanciated factoids borderin on lies as since ya haven't apparently asked Maciel why he did what ya allege that he did yer drawin yer own conclusions without even discussin it with him.

Never once have I said that yer a liar. I have accused ya of not knowin all th facts an details regardin what ya have said about others but never once have I said yer a liar.

On them pickles, do ya want dill or sweet an how about an order of fries ta go with it?
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 26, 2012
Correct me if I am mistaken here but doesn't this sorta sound like a Burger King form of a City Council whair ya can always have it yer way? Are thair no other people who may feel differently out of th some 84,000 people in Tracy? I wonder, don't they deserve some sort of representation as well?

Personally I don't thank much of slam dunk government that don't consider all th issues before makin a decision. History has shown us that ain't really ideal.


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